tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post583774140710920159..comments2024-01-10T11:19:56.456-08:00Comments on What Is Sustainable: The Myth of Human SupremacyWhat Is Sustainablehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10227382786082159733noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-71194530139427627432016-07-06T17:49:20.720-07:002016-07-06T17:49:20.720-07:00For Venkataraman Amarnath or anyone else wondering...For Venkataraman Amarnath or anyone else wondering whether there's a realistic way to cut off the life blood of industrial civilization, to give the rest of the world a breather against the onslaught of zombie humans: yes, there is! Jensen, with Lierre Keith and Aric McBay, wrote <i>Deep Green Resistance</i>, which outlines a general strategy and pointers towards the movement necessary to implement it.<br /><br />Their vision includes a place for everyone: aboveground activists of all sorts defending land and rebuilding sustainable local cultures, and belowground activists dismantling industrial infrastructure.<br /><br />The whole book is worth studying, but you can start by reading the <a href="http://deepgreenresistance.org/deep-green-resistance-strategy/decisive-ecological-warfare" rel="nofollow">Decisive Ecological Warfare excerpt</a> for the core of the strategy.Norrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02790917341588271564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-29858054364282914362016-07-06T17:45:50.310-07:002016-07-06T17:45:50.310-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Norrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02790917341588271564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-46945734142039426672016-07-06T16:11:34.765-07:002016-07-06T16:11:34.765-07:00Hi Norris, I clicked on your link twice, and twice...Hi Norris, I clicked on your link twice, and twice got "file not found."What Is Sustainablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10227382786082159733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-45529729641013329402016-07-05T23:17:32.463-07:002016-07-05T23:17:32.463-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Norrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02790917341588271564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-88867670665842538542016-06-05T13:55:59.550-07:002016-06-05T13:55:59.550-07:00Hi Amarnath!
I don't think that we large-brai...Hi Amarnath!<br /><br />I don't think that we large-brained primates are in a good position to pull off a brilliant win-win strategy. Your note seems to assume that civilization as we know it will proceed as it now is until we take action to pull the plug on it. I see the situation as far more complicated.<br /><br />First, industrial civilization is doing a fabulous job of destroying itself. The human herd is in extreme overshoot, while the cheap energy bubble is starting to soften. What I'm hearing from my 93-year old friend, a retired Exxon-Mobil petroleum geologist and geology professor, is that the production curve post-peak is likely to have a far steeper downward curve than the pre-peak boom. <br /><br />The reserves of sequestered carbon are getting far more expensive to extract, because shale fracking, deep offshore drilling, and bitumin mining take a much bigger investment of money and energy. A lot of sequestered carbon will be left in the ground forever because it takes more energy to extract it than the end product contains.<br /><br />The major grain exporting nations are not at all prepared for a smooth transition to muscle-powered agriculture. Oxen and horses for pulling plows will require a huge expansion of grazing land, which is now being used for cropland and cities.<br /><br />Meanwhile, the climate change adventure is starting to roll now, with flooding in Paris, Germany, and Texas, extreme heat in India, and so on. We're going to see more droughts. We're overpumping many acquifers for irrigation. I don't think that 11 billion will come for dinner in 2050. Our staple crops, maize, wheat, rice, and potatoes are adapted to the stable climate that is beginning to unravel. How much heat can agriculture take?<br /><br />We now have over 440 nuclear power plants, and these generally take 50 or 60 years to cool down before being safely decommisisioned (see my review of Too Hot To Touch). Nuclear wastes remain extremely toxic for a million years or more. Almost none of these wastes are currently stored in stable geologic repositories. It would be polite to clean up this mess before pulling the plug on civilization. <br /><br />This morning, there are 7,427,000,000 humans. Read the news, and it seems clear that conflict is rising on every continent. I don't think that this century is going to be smooth sailing. I think that there are far more people with an eager interest in making money by destroying the Amazon rainforest and Ganges plains, compared to conservationists.<br /><br />We currently do not have the willpower (intelligence) to take serious action on population reduction, carbon emissions, soil mining, forest mining, fish mining, and on and on. You know the work I'm doing, trying to help people learn about environmental history and ecological sustainability. We are still HUGELY ignorant about how we got into this mess in the first place. Our education system is a disaster, still preaching "sustainable" development and perpetual growth. For 10,000 years, we've been repeating the same mistakes. Today, a few are just beginning to comprehend the mistakes.<br /><br />So, my prediction is for change. Everything is very screwed up. I have no solutions. My job right now is to help people learn. That's all I know.What Is Sustainablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10227382786082159733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-27136158997851188072016-06-04T14:41:59.701-07:002016-06-04T14:41:59.701-07:00I am not well read in this area, but my perception...I am not well read in this area, but my perception is this. <br />If we assume the coming end of industrial civilization, how to make it happen? If we let the power people to continue their control, they will burn all the carbon and hydrocarbon they can scrap until the earth is unlivable not only to Man but also to all large animals. If we can nudge Nature to do the job by cutting off the blood line of petroleum, may be we can save tiny parts of Amazon forest, Ganges plains etc. Amarnathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10045911629669056107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-18442225346536110852016-06-02T19:17:11.826-07:002016-06-02T19:17:11.826-07:00LOVE IT.LOVE IT.ZANNENhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03398186947533640946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-82343170157051747302016-06-02T12:11:23.686-07:002016-06-02T12:11:23.686-07:00Hi Riversong! Twelve or thirteen years ago I hung...Hi Riversong! Twelve or thirteen years ago I hung out on Jensen’s Yahoo mailing list. The vibe was intensely militant. I tried to imagine a strategy for taking out a dam, and it seemed purely suicidal. Gradually draining the reservoir would cause less eco-harm than simply blowing the dam open, and sending a sudden flash flood into the watershed, blasting away everything.<br /><br />In those days, Jensen was one of the few voices on the planet advocating dam removal. Today, the powers that be are actually removing dams! I sometimes wonder if his ranting transformed a totally ridiculous idea into a semi-respectable idea that might be worthy of consideration. (Of course, many new dams are being built or planned. Ignorance never sleeps!)<br /><br />With regard to “bringing down civilization,” I considered the immense amount of firepower, manpower, and money needed to bring down the civilization of Nazi Germany, just one nation. This grand vision seems to be light years away from realistic. I agree that industrial civilization is causing massive harm, and that this harm should stop. I also think that the nuke plants should be decommissioned prior to collapse, and all fuel rods stored as permanently as possible. I also think that industrial civilization will collapse before humankind enthusiastically endorses radical change. Anyway, my having questions about the vision triggered strong criticism, and I packed up and moved on.<br /><br />In this new book, Jensen still hopes that civilization ends, but he doesn’t recommend that readers fetch their stealth bombers, guided missiles, and battleships and do what needs to be done. The tone is softer. Jensen admits that the cult of human supremacy is so infectious that we’ll probably continue trying to manage nature until the end (154). The madness can only be stopped by the (probably involuntary) abandonment of the technics (219). This book won’t change many minds. It was written to support those who are questioning the myth (330). The destruction must be stopped. <i>We begin by questioning the unquestioned beliefs. Once you can do this, you can figure the rest out yourself</i> (333). <br /><br />My objective with this blog is to help pilgrims who want to learn, and Jensen is a significant voice in the discussion. Human supremacy is essentially the air we breathe (Shoot the gorilla! Colonize Mars!) Jensen’s book presents a potent critique of this belief. It will help some readers better understand reality. I agree that Jensen is a wounded healer, and I have some issues with his ideas, and the ideas in every book I review. I agree that he also offers important insights.What Is Sustainablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10227382786082159733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4136626590097801169.post-15283932517587672792016-06-02T06:33:30.756-07:002016-06-02T06:33:30.756-07:00When you note "the brainwashing of a wacko cu...When you note "the brainwashing of a wacko cult", I can't help but think of the stridently loyal, unquestioning and sometimes vicious acolytes that Jensen has carefully nurtured and refuses to challenge.<br /><br />"Jensen tackles and paddles many unquestioned beliefs" – except his own, which includes a certainty that non-violence is a weak and ineffective, and ultimately diversionary, principle for social change action.<br /><br />In all his early writings and talks, Jensen subtly and almost covertly encourages violence against human artifacts and institutions, much like the Unabomber and some of the most extreme Earth Firsters. He has stated explicitly that attacking anything that is undermining Nature is NOT an act of violence but an act of necessary defense of the defenseless natural world (much the same way that 2nd Amendment fanatics insist that defending themselves and their families with deadly force is a natural right).<br /><br />That the non-human world needs OUR defense and protection is the height of human arrogance and a logical corollary of the ideology of Human Supremacy.<br /><br />“If animals could conceive of the devil, his image would be man’s,” says Jensen. In fact, just as animals have no need of moral codes, they have no need of the very HUMAN concept of good vs. evil – or God and the Devil. As you correctly point out, animals would think of humanity as ignorant and misguided, but not stupid or evil. Only a very confused human, anthropomorphizing the natural world, would make such a statement.<br /><br />Derrik Jensen has much insight to offer the world (just as did Ted Kaczynski), but his core unquestioned belief that human civilization is an evil that must be eradicated from the earth is just more of "the tireless jabber from the lunatic asylum".<br /><br />Jensen is almost proud of the fact (which he has addressed extensively) of having been raised in an abusive, dysfunctional family. It gives him his identity – and public status – as a "victim", and explains why he continues to lash out at those he perceives as his victimizers in a perpetuating cycle of abuse that is typical of those who have not addressed their own demons but must forever project them onto the world.<br />Riversonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05413657075902226702noreply@blogger.com